Debate on France 24 on 22th October 2009.
Marc Perelman interviews Tariq Ramadan (Saint Antony’s College Oxford); Nicolas Perruchot (Nouveau Centre Party); Amel Boubekeur (Carnegie Middle East Center); and Fouad Al Obaid (Kuwait Times).PART 1
PART 2
I don’t think it is when you want to be active in society. But there are women who don’t want to be. For them it could be a choice (and their right to), but it doesn’t make interacting with non-muslims (and muslims) easier.
Hijab doesn’t either. Let everybody do what he/she chooses.
There are Muslim women who wear the face veil (niqab) purely to emulate the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Their wish is simply to cover their beauty when in view of adult males. They’re convinced that they are doing a righteous act for the sake of their Lord, in order to please Him. Someone who sincerely wants to live a life of piety, and this is one of the sacrifices they choose to make, I think they must be free to do so. Some of these women claim to go about their business in the society as much as they need to according to their family situations, and are not put off by the disaproval unacceptance around them.
As reported in the following hadith:
Aa’ishah (radyAllaahu anhaa) said:
“Male riders would pass by us while we (wives) were in the state of ihraam with the Messenger of Allaah (sallaahu alayhi was salem). When they would approach us, (each) one of us would let her jilbaab fall down from (the top of) her head over her face. And when they had passed on, we would uncover our faces”
I have a problem with the ‘cover their beauty’ thought. I do believe that hijab makes women more modest, but certainly not less beautiful (I see some stunning women with hijab!). On the other side: not all women that cover themselves (with hijab/ niqab) are that beautiful to begin with. What are they covering then. I’m not a man, so I don’t know how attraction works for them, but I can not imagine every woman being a temptation for them. Still, I do believe the hijab has a function; modesty, reminding the woman and the man (beautiful or not) that there are limits. But please let stop talking about ‘uglying’ women. To tell you the truth, as a women wearing hijab, I think that’s kind of offensive….
In this time of islamophobia is it fair to ask muslimwomen to cover their heads? Aren´t they made vulnerable – as a notice board for islam, and thus a frustration outlet for islamhaters? Is it fair (or even wise) to limit their carreeroppurtunities – especially when you consider muslimwomen are more often univerity educated than men? Why should women go through all this ‘hardship’ while men can relatively anonymously go through life, without having their religious affiliation on display (and I’m not talking about the Tariq Ramadan’s out there, but about the men who don’t show their colors)
I have to disagree with you here. I understand that it’s not always easy, but if all muslimwomen who are educated, decide to take off the headscarf because society tells them being accomplished and wearing a headscarf don’t match, they are only confirm this image. And this is exactly what is happening, in the west as well as in islamic countries: women who aren’t educated wear the hijab, women that are don’t. That’s not ok.
I wear a headscarf. And I have a succesfull carreer: I am in charge of a team and often operate in all-white settings. It is possible, but you have to manage the language as good as or better than non-muslims or women who don’t wear a headscarf and you have to have skills. Then people can look through the difference, but some still don’t and then you have to be persistent. Taking the headscarf off for me has never been an option, although I often felt it would make dealing with non-muslims easier. People sometimes just get confused when they have to deal with someone with a foreign appearance, that wears a headscarf, but speaks the language as they do and talks about the same things. The danger is in letting people project that feeling of dicomfort they have upon to you.
So then you have two options: staying at home or having a less visible position, or aiming higher. I chose the last option. It’s not the easiest, but it’s best for your feeling of self worth.
If she calls herself a muslim women and wants to strive please Allah the hijaab is required by the Quran and the authentic Sunnah. As far as niquabs and the covering of the face. some scholars differ on it and say it is not obligatory. I believe that it is based on the ayat in the Quran. For the women to cover their whole body so they will known as free respectable women and to not show off themselves like during the times of ignorance. In western society when one accpets Islam she has to accept all the conditions and obligations that come along with it. Such as hijab! No believing man or woman can have a opinion on the Quran and what they are commanded to do. Islam is not christianity where you can do as you wish and hope that you will be forgiven. Islam is not just a religion it is a way of life.
Yes thinks for muslims in Europe look bad and sometimes hatred and mistrust is palpable. But still I feel like I´m part of a civilization on the rise and I wouldn´t want to be in any other time, in any other place!
I absolutely agree with Prof Tariq! Muslims fall into their self-created traps,which is always well-used by others.They preoccupy with insignificant religious rituals, rather than claim and win a full mastery over their own fates, by participating and contributing to the society they live. I hope we sooner become aware that a mentality of the ‘victimized’ is not even pleasing for Allah, if that’s what we aim.
But isn´t this way of being a muslim rather than an expression of extreme religiousity an expression of being threatened by and not knowing how to deal with society. It´s the other side of the coin of for example criminality among some of our young men: if society don’t wants me I don’t want it back…
Thank you Tariq for the struggle. In the Netherlands there’s a real attack on muslims in general and Morrocans in particular. And these two aren’t unrelated. A colleague once said that if the whole of Aruba came here the people of Netherlands wouldn’t be so much against it. The Turks too don’t form that much of a threat because they are more secular. But Moroccans… they just are a bit too muslim!
The Moroccans are sctually better integrated than the Turks. They spreak Dutch better, are more often good educated and are more open to Dutch people. Some of my best friends are Moroccan. Turks are more amongst themselves, only speak Turkish with eatch other. But yes Moroccas are more mudlim in their identity than Turks, when the Dutch about muslims they think about Moroccans. That’s what bothers a lot of them.
Moroccans have to speak Dutch even to understand eatch other with all their different languages of origin. The moroccan community is developing very fast. They will amaze the Dutch soon, espexially the women.
If you ask me Moroccans (including myself) are more stubborn then is good for them…
I think non Muslims in North America have come to accept the hijab in a western context. And I understand that hijab in whatever form you choose to wear it, burqa or not is meant to be a protection for women. I don’t imagine how the burqa in the west would protect women in fact it will draw more attention to them then I think they would care for. A burqa would make you stand out draw people to stare at you and comment, sometimes in a hostile manner. It is also not practical if you have to wear it in three feet of snow. I have seen this and it is disgusting how 12 or more inches of the bottom of the abaya/burqa is wet or dirty from dragging on the ground and then they come to the mosque to pray. Are they not aware that dogs defecate and urinate on sidewalks not to mention people? Wear what you like but I think Muslims should be clever enough and have the common sense to adapt themselves in what ever culture they are in and still preserve their Muslim identity. Modesty can be achieved in the west with or without the burqa…but I would prefer without.
And this is exactly what is happening, in the west as well as in islamic countries: women who aren’t educated wear the hijab, women that are don’t. That’s not ok.
^re: Consider the connection, knowledge is power. The educated women are more aware of issues and are somewhat less dependent. Less educated women lack some of that awareness and power to make such a choice. That doesn’t mean an educated woman would always choose to not wear, just that they are better equipped to feel confident in their decision. That more of them choose to forgo the hijab speaks volumes.
have the common sense to adapt themselves in what ever culture they are in and still preserve their Muslim identity.
^Bravo! Many people don’t realize this is the central hurdle of immigration, whether it be Mexicans/South Americans into USA or Middle Eastern into Europe.
It is fine to preserve some identity but also NECESSARY to adapt and assimilate into the new chosen culture. It is not fine for an immigrated community.to remain clustered, unchanged and limit contact within their chosen relocation. That begs the question, why bother moving in the first place?